Mind-Body And Lifestyle Medicine Are Powerful Tools For Preventing Common Mental And Physical Diseases, With April Hirschberg, M.D.

We are so happy to announce that on the last Friday of each month, April Hirschberg, M.D., DipABLM, will be joining Dr. Juna for regular conversations about the science of resilience. We will share what we learn on our journey as mom-M.D.s specializing in lifestyle and mind-body medicine. We will also discuss evidence based, simple tools that can prevent and mitigate common mental and physical health problems.

April is an instructor in Psychiatry at Harvard Medical School, and ⁠Medical Co-Director of Mind Body Health at Home Base, a Red Sox Foundation⁠ and Massachusetts General Hospital Program.

Ask April and Juna questions and they'll answer them on episodes published on the last Friday of each month.

Just go to ⁠MindBodySpace.com/podcast⁠, subscribe, and enter the question on the form.

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@MINDBODYSPACE

Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@fallasleepeasy

Find out more about April Here: ⁠https://researchers.mgh.harvard.edu/profile/3191593/April-Hirschberg⁠

⁠https://aprilhirschberg.com/⁠

⁠https://instituteofcoaching.org/users/april-hirschberg-md-dipablm

00:00:00 Empowering through Knowledge: Understanding the Science Behind Behavioral Change

[00:00:00] Dr. Juna: So I think helping people have a little bit more background or knowledge about the science to your point, it does take away, hopefully, some of the shame or some of the burden people feel, you know, that they're doing things wrong. But there are ways in which to repair this. And again, it's trying to give people the power to try to each day make a small change that can change things in the right direction. So there's always that power. And with knowledge, there's even more power.

00:00:29 Interview with Dr. April Hirschberg on Boosting Performance and Wellness

[00:00:29] Dr. April Hirschberg: Welcome to the MindBodySpace podcast where you can stress less and boost your performance and wellness down to the cellular level just by listening. Hi. I'm doctor Juno, a mom MD passionate about sharing evidence based tips to keep you and your family well. For the past 10 years, I've been teaching the science of resilience to high achieving individuals at many different schools and organizations. And currently, I'm on faculty at The Juilliard School Pre College Division, teaching gifted students how to stress less and perform at their best.

00:01:01 Interview with Dr. April Hirschberg on Neuroscience and Meditation

[00:01:01] Dr. April Hirschberg: I started this podcast because I wanted to share what I learned with my students, fellow parents, educators, and anyone who's interested. As I explore fascinating topics like neuroscience and meditation with experts in education, medicine, and psychology. Your support makes this possible. Please subscribe and share with a family, friend, anyone who needs to stress less, boost performance, and be happier. If you have questions for my guests or for me, or if you have a topic that you'd like us to cover, please head on over to MindBodySpace.

00:01:32 Interview with Dr. April Hirschberg on Sleep and Wellness

[00:01:32] Dr. April Hirschberg: Comforward/podcast and ask away, and we will answer your questions on the podcast on the last Friday of every month. If you need a good night's sleep, head on over to my YouTube channel, fall asleep easy, to drift off and sleep like a baby.

00:01:46 Dr. Juna and Dr. April Hirschberg Partnering on Courses

[00:01:46] 2: I'm so happy to see you here today. Thanks for joining me.

[00:01:50] Dr. Juna: Hi, Juno. I'm just so glad we have the technology finally working.

[00:01:54] 2: I know. We had some mishaps before, but this is excellent. You sound amazing. And I'm so happy to tell all the listeners that you're here to join me every Friday, last week of the month. We're so excited to be partnering together on a few courses that we're doing together.

00:02:12 Discussion on Collaboration and Certification

[00:02:12] 2: I've known you how long now? I I met you at the Benson Henry Institute.

[00:02:15] Dr. Juna: Yeah. It was pre COVID. So it's been probably about 5 years, I think.

[00:02:20] 2: Yes. When we both got certified at the luncheon, that's when we met. Right?

[00:02:24] Dr. Juna: Exactly.

00:02:25 Discussion on Career Pivot and Shared Values in Mind-Body Medicine

[00:02:25] 2: So at the Benson Henry Institute at Harvard Medical School, where we both trained in mind body medicine as clinicians, and we found out that we had a lot in common because we're both moms. So I guess between the 2 of us, we range ages from, high school all the way into college and beyond. You and I also have in common the fact that you are a board certified psychiatrist at Massachusetts General Hospital, But you have chosen to fully pivot your career because I think that's where we had a lot of similarities to to always having the same core values of, like, prevention and wellness.

00:03:04 Conversation with Dr. April Hirschberg about Psychiatry and Evolution of Life

[00:03:04] Dr. Juna: Thank you, Juna. And it was great to meet you then. And and looking back, I can't believe it's been that long. But, obviously, life has, changed and evolved for all of us. So as you mentioned, I'm trained in psychiatry, and I came over 20 years ago to Mass General Hospital.

00:03:22 Discussion on Prevention and Mitigation of Mental Health Conditions

[00:03:22] Dr. Juna: And I've had the opportunity to continue there and benefit from so many great programs, first in the women's mental health and then through the Benson Henry Institute's learning in mind body medicine where I eventually came to meet you. But that additional training and the lifestyle medicine training I've had has really helped evolve my career to, as you point out, work more towards prevention, trying to prevent some of the mental health conditions that so many people struggle with. And if not prevent, then certainly mitigate some of the issues that people are facing today.

[00:03:58] 2: Yeah. And I think that's where we bonded. Right, April? Because you and I are both moms, and we just wanted to prevent some of the most, prevalent issues out there today, which is anxiety and depression, you know, especially during the isolation of COVID. So I think that's when we really bonded about what we wanna do, you know, because by the time in allopathic medicine by the time someone is diagnosed with something, that problem has been going on for many years, especially in psychiatry.

00:04:29 The Importance of Early Intervention in Mental Health

[00:04:29] 2: Right? I think the average is 7 to 10 years. Maybe you know better than me.

[00:04:32] Dr. Juna: I don't know the specific number. Honestly, I can't recall, but it's so true. You know, when you interview people over the years as we we both have, you know, many of these health conditions, especially the mental health conditions, started back in childhood. So if we can intervene with the kids but, really, if we can intervene with the parents who are raising the kids, that's really where the most bang for the buck will be because we can not only help the child, but we can help the whole family.

00:04:58 Preventative Mental Health Measures

[00:04:58] 2: Yeah. And I think over the past decade or so, it's becoming, well known among psychiatrists and psychologists that there can be a preventative action that could decrease, things like anxiety and depression. You know, you can start preemptively. The problem is that when you wait till there's a diagnosis and you have to see an MD already or a psychologist, then there is a major issue affecting your life. Right?

00:05:25 The Impact of Diagnosis on Healthcare Access

[00:05:25] 2: Because the DSM, which is the Diagnostic Statistics Manual, which everybody uses to code, their medical bills, so to insurers and such and such, you need to have a diagnosis in order to be reimbursed for that. So you're not seeing a health care provider until you actually have something that's diagnosable, which, unfortunately, means that it's whatever is going on with you is significantly impacting your day to day life.

00:05:53 Understanding When Mental Health Concerns Become Severe

[00:05:53] Dr. Juna: Absolutely. Yeah. It's either, you know, impairing your function in some way with regard to school, your social situation, your ability to work if you're an adult. So, yes, it's when it's, you know, crossed over from, you know, maybe a little bit problematic to severely impacting your, ability to do things you would typically be able to do or enjoy.

00:06:14 Exploring the Power of Mind, Body, and Lifestyle Medicine in Combating Diseases

[00:06:14] 2: Mhmm. Yeah. And myself being on the anxious kind of side, but a good anxious. Right? Because anxiety helps us to prevent things.

[00:06:22] 2: Anxiety helps us, in some ways. It's not all bad. So in the sense that I want to prevent things for my children and myself, or family, and all the students that I've taught over the years. Because I couldn't believe, like, how powerful these mind, body, and lifestyle medicine skills were in combating the major diseases that we have in our society today. So talk to us a little bit more about how you feel as a psychiatrist.

00:06:50 Discussion on Prescribing Medication for Mental Health

[00:06:50] 2: I mean, we have such powerful medications. And in psychiatry, especially, physicians, they do prescribe a lot of medication. You know? I remember seeing someone in medical school because I was stressed out, I'd gone through a breakup. And that first day that I entered her office, she wrote me a script for Prozac, which I I took for, like, 1 month and then I stopped.

[00:07:14] 2: It didn't really help me that much. So

[00:07:16] Dr. April Hirschberg: and thinking back, you know, it was a situational issue. It was a breakup. So I don't really think that it was it warranted medication, honestly. And don't get me wrong. I love medications when it's warranted.

00:07:28 Transitioning from Pharmaceutical Psychiatry to Non-Pharmaceutical Coaching

[00:07:28] 2: But from your point of view as a psychiatrist and as a mom, what made you really decide to go full on into non pharmaceutical coaching versus the usual path of pharmaceuticals and psychiatry therapy?

[00:07:46] Dr. Juna: Well, I think for me personally, as you as you point out, there are a lot of situations that do cause us stress increased stress or distress or a little bit of anxiety may then, you know, get exacerbated. So there are times in our lives that we may benefit from a medicine, and that might be the only option. But as you point out, sometimes when people are coming in to see a psychiatrist, that's actually the only thing they want or think that they might be getting is a medicine. But, really, we do have other things to offer people. But in our training, in the traditional medical, training, we didn't maybe get as much of that.

00:08:22 Exploring the Role of Mind-Body Practices in Medicine

[00:08:22] Dr. Juna: And I think the pendulum has swung now. And I think as we are a little bit further out, Juno, from our medical training, I do think it's changed a little bit. But for me, personally, when I was seeing people either in women's mental health or in the cancer center, I didn't want the only thing I could offer somebody to be a medicine. So that's why I wanted to get that additional training with the mind body practices because we do, as individuals, have a lot of power to lower our own stress or distress levels and increase our body's relaxation ability or elicit the relaxation response, which is really our parasympathetic nervous system. I know you know all this, but our listeners maybe don't yet.

00:09:04 Empowering People Through Mind-Body Medicine

[00:09:04] 2: Oh, yeah. No. Absolutely. Talk to

[00:09:07] Dr. Juna: And so what you and I do, we try to educate people about the power that they have to take control of their own bodies and their own minds and health. And I think once you educate people about that, you give them back the power that they feel they are missing. And I think, especially, you know, in this day and age, I think many people feel like they don't have much control around their surroundings, but we do have control of our own reactions to our surroundings. So you may not be able to remove all the stressors from someone's life, but you can give them the tools to respond to those stressors. And that mind body medicine is one of the biggest tools that we have as humans, but we've never really learned about it.

00:09:50 The Importance of Teaching Health and Wellness Skills to Younger Generations

[00:09:50] Dr. Juna: And that's why your courses are so important, and that's why it's important to be getting into the schools and getting the ability to intervene at a younger and younger age. Because if we teach these skills to younger people, they will be able to do this throughout the rest of their lives. And it's never too early, as you know, Juna, and it's never too late to learn these skills. So we're just so excited that we have people listening to us and and learning because it's a real journey. And it's not always linear, but we always have the ability to learn and gain new skills about how to take control of our health and improve our life through lifestyle and mind body medicine.

00:10:28 Promoting Early Health Education for Children

[00:10:28] 2: Well, I love everything you just said. Obviously, that's why that's why we're both on this path together. And I wanna go back to what you said about teaching kids younger and younger. Because as you know, I've been I'm a big fan of primordial prevention, which it's the step before primary prevention where you actually decreases the conditions in which precursors to disease settle into your body. We now know that kids as young as 7 years old, 10 years old, have the beginnings of the inflammation of the endothelial cells, which is the lining of the vessels in our body that increases the chance of developing cardiovascular diseases.

00:11:11 The Importance of Preventing Hypertension at a Young Age

[00:11:11] 2: Well, hypertension, which would be the marker that would increase your risk for cardiovascular disease in the future. Starting really young is so important. Not that everybody has to be eating perfectly all the time. It's almost impossible in our culture. However, every choice you make adds up.

00:11:29 Maintaining Healthy Habits after Setbacks

[00:11:29] 2: Let's say you used to eat healthy, but then you took a year where you were just stressed and you were terrible with your nutrition and didn't really exercise much. Well, those habits that you had for that year, and especially the younger you get, the better. Think about things like brushing your teeth. Right? We were very young.

[00:11:47] 2: When we learn those things, it's still there. I mean, we now know with neuroscience, that these kinds of habits are ingrained in our, in our brain, not to rush, but those habits are always there to be uncovered. So even if you have those setbacks, it's much easier to go back when 5 years old. Oh, you know, that was comforting to me when I ate apples, you know, or in raisin or something like that. So our brain, like, just recalls all those things.

00:12:15 Addressing Teen Mental Health: A Growing Concern

[00:12:15] 2: And the earlier you start, the better. Like you said, it's never too late. But as we all know, the CDC recently came out with statistics that were just overwhelming. You know, they said that teen girls who persistently felt sad or hopeless increased dramatically from 2011 to 2021. And that was before even the pandemic started.

00:12:36 Addressing the Increase in Mental Health Issues Among Adolescents

[00:12:36] 2: Mhmm. We went from, like, 36% to 57% of girls who felt persistently sad or hopeless. And then for boys, it was from 21% to 29%. Although, I I really think that's probably under neurobiology and the the science of their brains and neurobiology and the the science of stress, how would that come into play to prevent or decrease this sort of epidemic we're having?

00:13:08 Improving Cardiovascular Health through Nutrition and Relaxation Response

[00:13:08] Dr. Juna: Yeah. I mean, you bring up many important points, and I wanna just go back to one of the earlier ones in terms of the the health of our our vessels. Right? I mean, I think of that as being so important because our blood vessels are impacted by our heart. Our cardiovascular system is impacted by so many things, including, as you point out, the nutritional aspect, but also we know that promoting physical activity and eliciting the relaxation response can really promote the improvement of our cardiovascular system.

00:13:41 Promoting Brain Health Through Cardiovascular Wellness

[00:13:41] Dr. Juna: I was listening to another lecture this week, and it was talking about if we think of our brains as being the top, so many people just talk about a cardiovascular system as our core, like our heart and our lungs, but we have blood vessels all the way up into our brain. So we really are benefiting our entire brain and our mental health and our brain health when we're improving our whole cardiovascular system with the healthy eating, with the promoting physical activity, and eliciting that relaxation response that we're teaching kids and adults of all ages. Because it is a startling statistic that the CDC has put out about this increase in mental health conditions among young adults. And really, across the the entire lifespan, it's dramatic, and it's, really should be a call to action for all of us. We do have ability to intervene, you know, within our own homes.

00:14:34 The Importance of Getting Out in Nature for Wellbeing

[00:14:34] Dr. Juna: As we know, Juna and I just was talking to my daughter the other day. She's like, don't tell me about another study. I don't wanna hear about it. Because I was talking to her about this study and how important nature is in getting out into nature on the snow day we had. I was like, you we have to go outside.

[00:14:50] Dr. Juna: It's it's good for us. And she's like, I don't wanna hear about it. But I did convince her to go out. Yeah. And her her her mood did seem to improve after we, you know, we had gone out for that walk.

00:14:58 Discussion on Research Studies and Repetition in Conversations

[00:14:58] 2: Did she admit that?

[00:15:00] Dr. Juna: She no. She didn't. No. Not yet, Juna. But it is

[00:15:03] 2: follow-up on that. Yeah.

[00:15:04] Dr. Juna: Yeah. We'll follow-up.

[00:15:05] 2: And, you know, I just wanna say that, you know, sometimes we sound like broken records, but the repetition is so important. And, you know, I know your daughter doesn't wanna hear about another research study, but I promise you, she will be telling you about research studies when she goes off to college.

00:15:20 The Importance of Nature for Teen Mental Health

[00:15:20] Dr. Juna: That's right. It's true. You know, there's growing literature about the importance of nature, and it doesn't have to be, like, the best nature experience. But getting outside, you know, for a little bit each day is really going to improve because it's another opportunity to break the train of everyday thought. The issues with teens is multifactorial.

[00:15:38] Dr. Juna: You know, it's hard to tease apart what is driving that dramatic increase in sadness and hopelessness and and all of those markers of how how difficult it is now to be a teen. But there are multiple ways that we can target that issue, but we need to start and we need to, to your point, like, intervening on one little area then can cause a ripple effect in so many of the other areas. We have to do something, and that's why I'm so glad we're doing this now and helping people to find just little ways that they can intervene in their own lives.

00:16:09 Understanding the Neurobiology of the Brain for Better Mental Health

[00:16:09] 2: I'm so excited because I know that you're also interested in some nutritional psychiatry and the genomics of mind body medicine, which means, you know, we can basically turn our genes, certain codes on and off with, how we handle stress. Right? So even though there are many, you know, studies showing meditation and how it's beneficial, etcetera, I think it's so important that children and parents and educators start to understand the actual neurobiology of their brain because this is a possibility now for anybody to really start to understand their brain because we have so many more methods of studying the brain over the last 20 years, and we really know a lot more than we ever did before. And it's gonna continue to increase. I think this is just something that we should know as much as we know about how to handle a cut that we might get on our hand To be able to understand our minds better, how what we think, how we handle stress has actual chemical response in our mind.

00:17:13 The Importance of Integrating Neuroscience into Education for Stress Reduction

[00:17:13] 2: To learn it in so many different ways is really important. And whether you're learning about mindfulness just from a spiritual side versus, you know, for kids in school, I really think it's great if they learn it as part of as part of STEM education to understand their own brain and nervous system. My mission is to get the neuroscience of stress, get that basic fundamental neuroscience into schools, even into mom's hands as the kids are growing so that this is just part of the conversation. And it's gonna decrease so much suffering and prevent so much preventable diseases. Serious things from cancers to heart disease.

00:17:53 Conversation on Heart Disease Month and Mental Health Issues

[00:17:53] 2: It's February. It's heart disease month. As well as mental health issues.

[00:17:58] 2: I'm just so excited to do these conversations every month now, April. I think we can really bring something to this whole, field of stress management as moms and as medically trained doctors. You know, we've seen so much out there, right, between the 2 of us. April, you and I are so passionate about this, and we've been bringing this into our local communities. And I'm so excited that you're gonna go over to Danny's Place, which is an organization you introduced me to.

00:18:23 Partnership with Danny's Place

[00:18:23] 2: And their amazing staff, Katie, the executive director, who is the sister of Danny, who the place was named after, who tragically passed away in an automobile accident. Having met Katie and Anne, who's on the board of directors, I'm so excited that we're going to be partnering with them for you to go and speak to the parents and to bring some of our science of resilience programs to their community.

[00:18:48] Dr. Juna: Sure. I just wanna say too, Danny's Place is such a wonderful place that's really grown over the years in the approximately 14 years that I've lived here in Acton. You know, it started out in one small space kind of close to the schools, and then it's grown. And this is their 3rd space, at least I know of. And it's really just a a safe space for youth in the area to discover themselves and discover tools in which they can enhance their own well-being.

00:19:13 Dr. Juna and Dr. April Hirschberg Discuss Parental Stress Management Course

[00:19:13] Dr. Juna: And this talk that I'll be doing will be directed towards the parents and guardians. We'll provide some resiliency tips and also a brief introduction to the course that we're gonna be offering for stress management course for parents. And, hopefully, it'll be a very robust conversation. You know, I'll provide some tips and those ask some questions so they can bring home this information to their kids of all ages. Some of these parents will have preschoolers, but they'll also probably have some college kids too.

[00:19:40] Dr. Juna: So it's gonna be a great evening and I'm really looking forward to it.

00:19:43 Exploring the Science Behind Mind-Body Medicine and Meditation

[00:19:43] 2: Yeah. And I'm really looking forward to more of these conversations, a pertains to psychiatry and also preventative wellness for everyone.

[00:19:59] Dr. Juna: But it's gonna be great in order to bring this information to the listeners and, you know, really engage people and and try to dispel any myths about mind body medicine or meditation because, really, this is based on science, and this is science that we all can learn. One of the slides I always share at these talks is a very complicated slide that defines the stress response and the body's relaxation response, and it's an elaborate display of hormonal changes and heart rate variability. I think it just drives home the point that we're we're talking about is based on science. When some people think or hear meditation, they think it's not for them because, you know, maybe they've tried. I think once people understand the science behind it and what how they're impacting their own body's ability for profound rest and restoration, then they'll take a second look at some of these practices that they may have passed by thinking that it wasn't for them.

[00:20:55] Dr. Juna: So it really is for everyone.

00:20:57 The Importance of Evidence-Based Tools in Complementary Medicine

[00:20:57] 2: And, you know, science is not perfect as we all know. And, you know, you have to be very careful about reading the different kinds of studies that are out there. But we do have to have a measure of something. Right? If you're doing something, at least I, for me, I want to know that there is some research associated with it, how it works, if there's any downsides, what is the optimal dose of doing things, how tools like changing your perspective, your mental perspective on things can actually benefit you or not.

[00:21:26] 2: You know, all of these things have been studied. And I think that's really important, right, that when you're talking about complementary medicine, that we're using evidence based tools.

00:21:37 Exploring the Intersection of Mind-Body Medicine and Cognitive Behavioral Therapy

[00:21:37] Dr. Juna: Oh, absolutely. And you mentioned a few other ones that kinda touch upon not just mind body medicine, but one of the main components of the stress management program we're talking about embodies the best of cognitive behavioral therapy. We're not teaching people or or offering therapy to individuals. We're taking the components of some of what is taught within that therapy and taking out the important educational pieces that you can apply to your own life, in your kid's life, that the best of that without pathologizing it really.

00:22:09 Discussion on the Impact of Exercise and Nutrition on Cellular Level

[00:22:09] 2: And also, you know, we're talking about how exercise affects us down to the cellular. We're talking about how foods affect us to the cellular level. Example of how impact full it is when you know some of this hard science. I have a guest coming up, which I'm really excited about. His name is doctor Thomas Robinson.

[00:22:28] 2: He's a Stanford professor. He's the Irving Shulman professor in child health and professor of pediatrics and medicine at Stanford Medical School. He's coming on to the podcast to talk about a telomere study, which is basically showing biological aging. I won't go into the telomere thing now because he's gonna be on. But it goes into showing actual biological measure of aging in children who were obese and then they lost weight, and they measured it, gained a little weight back, and then they they measured the telomeres again.

00:23:00 The Impact of Understanding the Science Behind Health Decisions

[00:23:00] 2: And the biological age was showing how obesity actually changes your telomere length. So understanding it from that point of view is so much more different than, you know I I think it takes the onus off of psychological kind of shame or guilt when you actually see numbers and you see, like, how it's affecting the genes or see how your brain is working, how ultra processed foods are actually making our brains addicted to it. So when you look at the science of it, it takes away that whole shame and difficulty that can actually lead to anxiety and depression. And instead of treating it like a cut that you might have on your hand, all of a sudden it becomes, oh, I'm a terrible person. I don't know how to eat the right foods.

[00:23:46] 2: So when you have all the science behind it, it really removes all of that. Yeah.

[00:23:50] Dr. Juna: It's it's so true. And and you point out that study about the young people and BMI being higher and affecting their telomere length. Again, there's also the studies as you probably know showing some of the blood vessels of young people even, you know, seeing some of the damage at that young age. So I think helping people have a little bit more background or knowledge about the science to your point, it does take away, hopefully, some of the shame or some of the burden people feel, you know, that they're doing things wrong. But there are ways in which to repair this.

00:24:26 Conversation with Dr. April Hirschberg about her company or companies

[00:24:26] Dr. Juna: And again, it's trying to give people the power to try to each day make a small change that can change things in the right direction. Mhmm. So there's always that power. And with knowledge, there's even more power. So I can't wait to listen to your podcast with him because the work is fascinating.

00:24:42 Discussion with Dr. April Hirschberg

[00:24:42] 2: It is fascinating. Thank you so much for being here, April. And you guys will hear from us again last Friday of the month.

[00:24:49] Dr. Juna: Excellent. Thanks so much, June. I really appreciate, all the work you're doing to advance this work and bringing the important information to everyone that's willing to listen.

[00:25:00] 2: So if you wanna send us questions, go to mindbuddyspace.comforward/podcast. Sign up and ask us any questions that you would like addressed on the last Friday of each month. So fun.

[00:25:10] Dr. Juna: That is fun. Yay.

April is an instructor in Psychiatry at Harvard Medical School, and ⁠Medical Co-Director of Mind Body Health at Home Base, a Red Sox Foundation⁠ and Massachusetts General Hospital Program. Ask April and Juna questions and they'll answer them on episodes published on the last Friday of each month. Just go to ⁠MindBodySpace.com/podcast⁠, subscribe, and enter the question on the form. Find out more about April Here: ⁠https://researchers.mgh.harvard.edu/p... ⁠https://aprilhirschberg.com/⁠ ⁠https://instituteofcoaching.org/users... Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1F6YQzR... Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast... Instagram:   / mindbody_space   LinkedIn:   / mindbodyspace-llc   Website: https://mindbodyspace.com/ YouTube:    / @mindbodyspace   Youtube:    / @fallasleepeasy  

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